Nice way to see it. I keep reminding people, we do this because it's fun. We enjoy it.
We can't conquer mountains as they will be there long after we've turned to dust. The best we can do is compete against ourselves and get back to tell the tale.
is what is valuable, not the actual summit. I've done high summits and turned back at 13,000 feet and less on others. If it doesn't feel right don't do it. You would have only ended up miserable.
And good question. Too bad about your knee. I can certainly understand your disappointment over ending a major climb. I've turned back 1,000' from the top of Aconcagua and 400' from the top of Rainier. In terms of success I guess that is for each of us to decide. I don't consider reaching the summit as being successful but I only developed that viewpoint reading many books and reports from other climbers. To me having fun on the climb, sharing the adventure with friends and returning with all my fingers and toes would be a success. The summit is a bonus.
I did enjoy your article, but I don't agree with the way you approach the subject. You list specific questions, metrics that with the correct combination of answers will equal success. Success is so subjective and different to each individual that the answer lies only in your own heart. The question "Did you summit?", only answers if you summited, it doesn't measure success. The fact that you get the same response from others "Oh you didn't make it to the top" is a pity. Other climbers understand, and non-climbers never will. Then again, most non-climbers don't even understand why we climb, let alone how to measure success. The truth is that you made a great decision to not continue, you'll live to climb another day, and if you go back to Denali statistics say that you will summit. Now heal up and get back out there!
I like the points being made. It seems to me when conversing with non climbers they base their judgments on what they understand. Most people understand the concept of 'top' and most understand 'dead'. What they seem to miss is that as someone tries to reach the 'top', they're trying their damnedest not to end up 'dead'. This is largely why I don't discuss climbing with non climbers. Instead I just tell my adventure story and hope I entertained them. I suppose I could define success by how good of a story I bring back.
Good job on Denali also. There are many climbers that never make it as far as you did and I am sure you have good tales to tell of your journey up to the knee thing.
Yes, summit is not the most important (it's only a potential target, a direction), the whole experience is. As mrbynum points out "[we]'re trying [our] damnedest not to end up 'dead'." As long as I come back alive and intact I call it a successful climb, regardless of the events. However, the longer I climb the events are tougher and more frequent...
If making the summit were a given every climb there would be no challenge, and it would not be as fun. As an old pilot the saying is "There are old pilots and bold pilots but not old bold pilots." The same applies to mountaineering.
When I fail I no longer concern myself what others might think or say, but rather console myself with this quote from Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face in marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
Congratulations on your climb!
It's not only about the summit... It's about the experience, the trip itself, enjoying (or not!) the company of the climbing partners, it's simply about life in the open country. The summit is just the small sweet chocolate that tops the whole cake. I had my own experience some years ago on Kilimanjaro, when we had to turn back in our summit bid, and never considered it a failure. We all walked down the mountain, happy and healthy. That was my success
Nigel Lewis - Jul 27, 2007 10:46 pm - Hasn't voted
Well doneNice way to see it. I keep reminding people, we do this because it's fun. We enjoy it.
We can't conquer mountains as they will be there long after we've turned to dust. The best we can do is compete against ourselves and get back to tell the tale.
N
artg - Jul 30, 2007 1:37 pm - Hasn't voted
Good choiceEnjoyed reading the trip report. You made the right decision. Success in climbing is not always measured by reaching the summit.
SusanM - Jul 30, 2007 10:37 pm - Voted 10/10
The Experienceis what is valuable, not the actual summit. I've done high summits and turned back at 13,000 feet and less on others. If it doesn't feel right don't do it. You would have only ended up miserable.
Brad Marshall - Jul 31, 2007 12:21 pm - Voted 10/10
Good DecisionAnd good question. Too bad about your knee. I can certainly understand your disappointment over ending a major climb. I've turned back 1,000' from the top of Aconcagua and 400' from the top of Rainier. In terms of success I guess that is for each of us to decide. I don't consider reaching the summit as being successful but I only developed that viewpoint reading many books and reports from other climbers. To me having fun on the climb, sharing the adventure with friends and returning with all my fingers and toes would be a success. The summit is a bonus.
Andrew McKenzie - Aug 2, 2007 12:04 pm - Hasn't voted
Can't be quantified...I did enjoy your article, but I don't agree with the way you approach the subject. You list specific questions, metrics that with the correct combination of answers will equal success. Success is so subjective and different to each individual that the answer lies only in your own heart. The question "Did you summit?", only answers if you summited, it doesn't measure success. The fact that you get the same response from others "Oh you didn't make it to the top" is a pity. Other climbers understand, and non-climbers never will. Then again, most non-climbers don't even understand why we climb, let alone how to measure success. The truth is that you made a great decision to not continue, you'll live to climb another day, and if you go back to Denali statistics say that you will summit. Now heal up and get back out there!
mrbynum - Aug 2, 2007 5:03 pm - Hasn't voted
Climbing stories and non climbersI like the points being made. It seems to me when conversing with non climbers they base their judgments on what they understand. Most people understand the concept of 'top' and most understand 'dead'. What they seem to miss is that as someone tries to reach the 'top', they're trying their damnedest not to end up 'dead'. This is largely why I don't discuss climbing with non climbers. Instead I just tell my adventure story and hope I entertained them. I suppose I could define success by how good of a story I bring back.
Jerry S - Aug 3, 2007 10:26 am - Voted 9/10
Good readGood job on Denali also. There are many climbers that never make it as far as you did and I am sure you have good tales to tell of your journey up to the knee thing.
mrd - Aug 3, 2007 7:23 pm - Hasn't voted
It's nice to be on the topYes, summit is not the most important (it's only a potential target, a direction), the whole experience is. As mrbynum points out "[we]'re trying [our] damnedest not to end up 'dead'." As long as I come back alive and intact I call it a successful climb, regardless of the events. However, the longer I climb the events are tougher and more frequent...
mow10 - Aug 4, 2007 1:07 am - Hasn't voted
Like one of my partners says,"OK, we made it back to the car, we're all alive, successful climbing trip!"
kilimanjaro1 - Aug 6, 2007 11:45 am - Voted 10/10
SuccessIf making the summit were a given every climb there would be no challenge, and it would not be as fun. As an old pilot the saying is "There are old pilots and bold pilots but not old bold pilots." The same applies to mountaineering.
When I fail I no longer concern myself what others might think or say, but rather console myself with this quote from Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face in marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."
Congratulations on your climb!
AJones - Nov 24, 2007 1:03 pm - Hasn't voted
Boy do I ever agreeI like your list - it's about the experience not the peak. If we were successul all time, what fun would that be.
eza - Mar 6, 2009 10:11 am - Voted 10/10
Agreed, sureIt's not only about the summit... It's about the experience, the trip itself, enjoying (or not!) the company of the climbing partners, it's simply about life in the open country. The summit is just the small sweet chocolate that tops the whole cake. I had my own experience some years ago on Kilimanjaro, when we had to turn back in our summit bid, and never considered it a failure. We all walked down the mountain, happy and healthy. That was my success