Nice pictures and my respects for your great climbing adventure. On a personal level...Meh!
I don't think it graces you the way you repeatedly take a piss at your 'friend' for his money, status/job, education.
And you have clearly been very generous, but this doesn't mean he has to kiss your feet for it. You give because you want to give, not because you expect something (like adoration and obedience as if he was a little child) in return.
Although I must admit it does sound rather foolish, I think your friend is an inspiration for climbing Aconcagua solo under those conditions. His next pair of mitten gloves is on me. LOL.
Well, everybody is entitled to have opinions, but my answer to your is gonna be a copy/ paste from a message i just recieved, this guy that wrote me got the message of the TR, i don't think you did (either way i respect your opinion):
"First of all, it takes quite a lot of courage to post a trip report like
this one! It's so personal and if money is involved, it gets even more
personal, right? And it is so easy to misunderstand the point you want to
make. I see that people start giving negative comments already, and that
was also my guess of what's going to happen when I read it.
For me, I can feel your frustration between the lines and the only thing
you'd expect for exchange (and what every other person in such a situation
would expect and that is more than normal) - RESPECT! Obviously you did not
get any. I also think that it is very shortsighted for someone to comment
that "this doesn't mean he has to kiss your feet for it". Well, I don't
think you would have expected that to happen!
But unfortunately, an average 21 year old is just a kid and doesn't know
much about true respect and how to care about the other (BTW, check out the
age of those giving comments like the above quote;)!). Also, being (very)
poor complicates the things even further - the way of thinking when you
haven't seen much money (and suddenly get everything payed for) is
completely different of someone who has (more) money. This is a difficult
subject to explain.
I found you trip report rather fascinating and emotional, well done! "
Hahahaha :D dude, that passive aggressiveness made me LOL!! :D :D
Listen, I really did not mean to offend you. I hope that you might see your own part in the entire story, that's why I wrote the comment. My tone might have been a bit off for that purpose, but my intentions were good. So my point is: You were just as much a participant in the end-result as he was. I understand it hurts but recognizing your own part in the story may save you a lot of frustration and disappointment in the future.
You obviously have a lot of experience, generosity and companionship to offer. You let it go to waste by having an unrealistic view of the situation, of how your friend should react to what you offer him. I think you might have known that you don't see eye to eye on this up front but didn't want to acknowledge it. You hit reality hard and it is a bitter pill for you, I understand that and I'm very sorry for you... it sucks to get any kind of dreams shattered. But in my opinion it is not nice or justified to destroy your friend in public like that. If you cared about him at one point, why not hold on to those memories instead of trashing him? And, as I said, if you do not take any responsibility for creating the situation you might make the same mistake again.
I agree with other posters that friendship is just as much a part of the experience as the mountain. Why not be careful and realistic about your friendships just as much as you are about the mountain? You think your friend was stupid for going up the mountain under unreliable weather conditions. So why did you yourself go up the mountain with a friend which you knew was unreliable?
What I as an almost newbie take away as a lesson from your post and your reply is that I will only climb with people whom I personally know and trust 100%. Thanks for that! :)
Good luck with finding a new climbing buddy / friend, and with your future climbs.
75 kg is only 165lbs. 77 kg is only 170 lbs. 64 kg is only 140 lbs. Just enjoy that you get to climb your dream mountains, and don't complain about other people. Nice pictures, nice climb.
Same answer as the dude above you, plus, thanks for the correction!
Well, everybody is entitled to have opinions, but my answer to your is gonna be a copy/ paste from a message i just recieved, this guy that wrote me got the message of the TR, i don't think you did (either way i respect your opinion):
"First of all, it takes quite a lot of courage to post a trip report like
this one! It's so personal and if money is involved, it gets even more
personal, right? And it is so easy to misunderstand the point you want to
make. I see that people start giving negative comments already, and that
was also my guess of what's going to happen when I read it.
For me, I can feel your frustration between the lines and the only thing
you'd expect for exchange (and what every other person in such a situation
would expect and that is more than normal) - RESPECT! Obviously you did not
get any. I also think that it is very shortsighted for someone to comment
that "this doesn't mean he has to kiss your feet for it". Well, I don't
think you would have expected that to happen!
But unfortunately, an average 21 year old is just a kid and doesn't know
much about true respect and how to care about the other (BTW, check out the
age of those giving comments like the above quote;)!). Also, being (very)
poor complicates the things even further - the way of thinking when you
haven't seen much money (and suddenly get everything payed for) is
completely different of someone who has (more) money. This is a difficult
subject to explain.
I found you trip report rather fascinating and emotional, well done! "
You said, "When we got to portuzuelo I was moved already and crying, just the view of the final ridge to the summit was overwhelming for me". I totally understand how you felt. When you spend many years dreaming about one specific mountain and then the day comes when you are there and it is happening, it can be a very strong experience. I've gotten teary-eyed a few times. Like when I saw this scene it happened.
As far as your friendship with EVC goes, it's sad that it had to end that way. I have lost a few friends in similar situations. It seems that money has a way of corrupting relationships. I used to loan money to friends who seemed like they needed the help. But 2 of these friends (people I had known for years) took the money and tried to disappear. I tried to help and they stabbed me in the back. After that, I promised myself never again. I will not give my friends money, ever!
I totaly get when you said to me about the money loan, especially because we already talked about that.
You see, the SPer that send me a message got the picture, read his text above. Perfect.
I wasn't expecting nothing like what they said above, just friendship, that's all.
Now i climb/ hike alone and i have no one to share those great moments with me. Sometimes Pedro comes along but he lives in Curitiba.
I just got back home and i summited two great brazilian mountains (seeking the 35 highest of my country - 23 down, 12 to go) and i was absolutly alone. Soon i'll do the mountain pages.
Well, that's life you know...
Cheers buddy!
Paulo
PS: I knew that mountain too but never knew its name! I stoped by that small miners village!
Quiet a sad story to read (even though it's a great TR). It's such a pitty some people can put asside friendship so easily when money comes into play.
It's a pitty you climb alone nowadays (due to these experiences I suppose?). Being alone in the mountains can be great, but being able to be together with real friends in the mountains makes it, for me, even better.
btw, good luck on your 23 remaining Brazilian mountains :)
Hello again Koen!
Yes it is. Some people don't know how to appreciate help. I did helped him lots of times in the past but he said i wasn't a friend and that hurt me big time.
Yes that's why i got myself a tripod and hike/ climb alone. As i said before, i have some friends i know i can trust such as Pedro and Tacio (search on google: Pedro Hauck and Tacio Philip), but they're not always available to do something with me. For instance, the last weekend i went to Caparaó National Park, Tacio was in Petrópolis/ Teresópolis rock climbing and Pedro was openning a big traverse in Paraná state. Everyone with different projects ahahahah...
You're right about company and being alone on the mountains. Sometimes is good just to be alone and enjoy the view and the wind, but sometimes is good to have someone by you to share that moment, a hug of conquest and all that stuff.
But we can't get it right every time can we? hehehe
Cheers man!
Paulo
PS: About the mountains, you misunderstood me, i did 23 already and there is 12 to do yet! :)
Was absolutely bonkers for climbing, and used every hour of every day to get up high. Congratulations to you for your dream climb, and to him for achieving his dreams too! All this stuff about hurtful words and feelings and debts repaid too late, etc., doesn't belong here. I know, I know, my opinion on that is just one unimportant one, and you won't need to quote me the nice letter from comments above, I read it already. :D Good luck putting your energy into more climbing, less fuming.
Well thank you for your comment, and fair vote.
You see, again, i respect everyone elses opinion, i really do.
But one of the guys above unfortunately showed me he just want to mess around.
He left a comment, never voted.
After my answer he came back and voted 6/10. Poor decision, just poor.
But it doesn't matter. Not here for the points, just to share.
Cheers and happy climbings.
Paulo
Same to you. Believe me, I've had situations where I felt the same way, and your story is useful as a cautionary tale. Obviously you didn't let the whole debacle kill your love of mountains, and that is the important thing! :)
...as usual Paulo, you make an article that is not at all "easy". That's the part of your writing i like most. But this time i'm really not sure what to think of it. I understand your point, but i also understand the criticism some SPers expressed.
I have been thinking about it, and i think it might have to do with the fact that for many people the mountains are the place where they seek perfection, and an article like yours inevitably reminds people that it is quite hard to run from all these "muddy" problems and find that perfection. This can be hard on people.
I'm not sure i would behave like you did, and maybe this influences my judgement, but then, i'm not here to judge your actions or your ex friend's.
I'd rather congratulate you on your dream come true.
And if i may, don't let these bitter things poison your mind, keep focused, from what i read you don't have many peaks to go before you reach your objective.
Take care,
Gabriele
Wise words Gabriele.
Once again, thank you by reading this and for (like the other guy above) the fair comment and vote.
There is so much i didn't say here, if i did, people would change their minds but i think that's not the case.
That happened 15 months ago and i waited that long to write about it so i didn't mess things up even more with strong words.
Life goes on my friend!
Cheers
Paulo
Good story. I, personally, like the 'darker' side to this TR. The reality is that life has both good and bad points and this story portrays both. Also, many summits were accomplished which, I believe, ultimately overshadows the negative parts. The dissolution of a 'false' friendship pales in comparison to one's dream of reaching the top of a 'life list' peak. Cheers and keep on sharing your stories. And if I ever get back down to South America, we should go for a climb. Oh, and I like Bariloche; you're right it is touristy, but it has great parillas!
dadndave - Jun 26, 2011 3:09 am - Voted 10/10
Ugly storyI think your tale proves that if you nurse a mug long enough, he'll die in your arms.
PAROFES - Jun 26, 2011 4:36 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Ugly storyGood point.
Unfortunately some people don't get the same opinion as you do. But that's okay!
Cheers and happy climbings
Paulo
Bo1981 - Jun 26, 2011 12:18 pm - Hasn't voted
That's not friendshipNice pictures and my respects for your great climbing adventure. On a personal level...Meh!
I don't think it graces you the way you repeatedly take a piss at your 'friend' for his money, status/job, education.
And you have clearly been very generous, but this doesn't mean he has to kiss your feet for it. You give because you want to give, not because you expect something (like adoration and obedience as if he was a little child) in return.
Although I must admit it does sound rather foolish, I think your friend is an inspiration for climbing Aconcagua solo under those conditions. His next pair of mitten gloves is on me. LOL.
Take care, cheerio, Bo
PAROFES - Jun 26, 2011 4:19 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: That's not friendshipWell, everybody is entitled to have opinions, but my answer to your is gonna be a copy/ paste from a message i just recieved, this guy that wrote me got the message of the TR, i don't think you did (either way i respect your opinion):
"First of all, it takes quite a lot of courage to post a trip report like
this one! It's so personal and if money is involved, it gets even more
personal, right? And it is so easy to misunderstand the point you want to
make. I see that people start giving negative comments already, and that
was also my guess of what's going to happen when I read it.
For me, I can feel your frustration between the lines and the only thing
you'd expect for exchange (and what every other person in such a situation
would expect and that is more than normal) - RESPECT! Obviously you did not
get any. I also think that it is very shortsighted for someone to comment
that "this doesn't mean he has to kiss your feet for it". Well, I don't
think you would have expected that to happen!
But unfortunately, an average 21 year old is just a kid and doesn't know
much about true respect and how to care about the other (BTW, check out the
age of those giving comments like the above quote;)!). Also, being (very)
poor complicates the things even further - the way of thinking when you
haven't seen much money (and suddenly get everything payed for) is
completely different of someone who has (more) money. This is a difficult
subject to explain.
I found you trip report rather fascinating and emotional, well done! "
Take care!
Paulo
Bo1981 - Jun 26, 2011 6:54 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: That's not friendshipHahahaha :D dude, that passive aggressiveness made me LOL!! :D :D
Listen, I really did not mean to offend you. I hope that you might see your own part in the entire story, that's why I wrote the comment. My tone might have been a bit off for that purpose, but my intentions were good. So my point is: You were just as much a participant in the end-result as he was. I understand it hurts but recognizing your own part in the story may save you a lot of frustration and disappointment in the future.
You obviously have a lot of experience, generosity and companionship to offer. You let it go to waste by having an unrealistic view of the situation, of how your friend should react to what you offer him. I think you might have known that you don't see eye to eye on this up front but didn't want to acknowledge it. You hit reality hard and it is a bitter pill for you, I understand that and I'm very sorry for you... it sucks to get any kind of dreams shattered. But in my opinion it is not nice or justified to destroy your friend in public like that. If you cared about him at one point, why not hold on to those memories instead of trashing him? And, as I said, if you do not take any responsibility for creating the situation you might make the same mistake again.
I agree with other posters that friendship is just as much a part of the experience as the mountain. Why not be careful and realistic about your friendships just as much as you are about the mountain? You think your friend was stupid for going up the mountain under unreliable weather conditions. So why did you yourself go up the mountain with a friend which you knew was unreliable?
What I as an almost newbie take away as a lesson from your post and your reply is that I will only climb with people whom I personally know and trust 100%. Thanks for that! :)
Good luck with finding a new climbing buddy / friend, and with your future climbs.
Cheerio, Bo (who btw is not a dude ;) )
PAROFES - Jun 27, 2011 7:16 am - Hasn't voted
Re: That's not friendshipWell, once again: Can you read his name here? I can't.
Cheers and happy climbings!
Paulo
goingsick - Jun 26, 2011 2:53 pm - Voted 6/10
Conversion75 kg is only 165lbs. 77 kg is only 170 lbs. 64 kg is only 140 lbs. Just enjoy that you get to climb your dream mountains, and don't complain about other people. Nice pictures, nice climb.
PAROFES - Jun 26, 2011 4:20 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: ConversionSame answer as the dude above you, plus, thanks for the correction!
Well, everybody is entitled to have opinions, but my answer to your is gonna be a copy/ paste from a message i just recieved, this guy that wrote me got the message of the TR, i don't think you did (either way i respect your opinion):
"First of all, it takes quite a lot of courage to post a trip report like
this one! It's so personal and if money is involved, it gets even more
personal, right? And it is so easy to misunderstand the point you want to
make. I see that people start giving negative comments already, and that
was also my guess of what's going to happen when I read it.
For me, I can feel your frustration between the lines and the only thing
you'd expect for exchange (and what every other person in such a situation
would expect and that is more than normal) - RESPECT! Obviously you did not
get any. I also think that it is very shortsighted for someone to comment
that "this doesn't mean he has to kiss your feet for it". Well, I don't
think you would have expected that to happen!
But unfortunately, an average 21 year old is just a kid and doesn't know
much about true respect and how to care about the other (BTW, check out the
age of those giving comments like the above quote;)!). Also, being (very)
poor complicates the things even further - the way of thinking when you
haven't seen much money (and suddenly get everything payed for) is
completely different of someone who has (more) money. This is a difficult
subject to explain.
I found you trip report rather fascinating and emotional, well done! "
Take care!
Paulo
gimpilator - Jun 26, 2011 4:06 pm - Voted 10/10
Thanks For Sharing This ReportYou said, "When we got to portuzuelo I was moved already and crying, just the view of the final ridge to the summit was overwhelming for me". I totally understand how you felt. When you spend many years dreaming about one specific mountain and then the day comes when you are there and it is happening, it can be a very strong experience. I've gotten teary-eyed a few times. Like when I saw this scene it happened.
As far as your friendship with EVC goes, it's sad that it had to end that way. I have lost a few friends in similar situations. It seems that money has a way of corrupting relationships. I used to loan money to friends who seemed like they needed the help. But 2 of these friends (people I had known for years) took the money and tried to disappear. I tried to help and they stabbed me in the back. After that, I promised myself never again. I will not give my friends money, ever!
PAROFES - Jun 26, 2011 4:27 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: Thanks For Sharing This ReportAdam,
I totaly get when you said to me about the money loan, especially because we already talked about that.
You see, the SPer that send me a message got the picture, read his text above. Perfect.
I wasn't expecting nothing like what they said above, just friendship, that's all.
Now i climb/ hike alone and i have no one to share those great moments with me. Sometimes Pedro comes along but he lives in Curitiba.
I just got back home and i summited two great brazilian mountains (seeking the 35 highest of my country - 23 down, 12 to go) and i was absolutly alone. Soon i'll do the mountain pages.
Well, that's life you know...
Cheers buddy!
Paulo
PS: I knew that mountain too but never knew its name! I stoped by that small miners village!
KoenVl - Jun 26, 2011 5:41 pm - Voted 10/10
What money can do...Quiet a sad story to read (even though it's a great TR). It's such a pitty some people can put asside friendship so easily when money comes into play.
It's a pitty you climb alone nowadays (due to these experiences I suppose?). Being alone in the mountains can be great, but being able to be together with real friends in the mountains makes it, for me, even better.
btw, good luck on your 23 remaining Brazilian mountains :)
Cheers,
Koen.
PAROFES - Jun 27, 2011 7:26 am - Hasn't voted
Re: What money can do...Hello again Koen!
Yes it is. Some people don't know how to appreciate help. I did helped him lots of times in the past but he said i wasn't a friend and that hurt me big time.
Yes that's why i got myself a tripod and hike/ climb alone. As i said before, i have some friends i know i can trust such as Pedro and Tacio (search on google: Pedro Hauck and Tacio Philip), but they're not always available to do something with me. For instance, the last weekend i went to Caparaó National Park, Tacio was in Petrópolis/ Teresópolis rock climbing and Pedro was openning a big traverse in Paraná state. Everyone with different projects ahahahah...
You're right about company and being alone on the mountains. Sometimes is good just to be alone and enjoy the view and the wind, but sometimes is good to have someone by you to share that moment, a hug of conquest and all that stuff.
But we can't get it right every time can we? hehehe
Cheers man!
Paulo
PS: About the mountains, you misunderstood me, i did 23 already and there is 12 to do yet! :)
mvs - Jun 27, 2011 4:18 am - Voted 9/10
Your friendWas absolutely bonkers for climbing, and used every hour of every day to get up high. Congratulations to you for your dream climb, and to him for achieving his dreams too! All this stuff about hurtful words and feelings and debts repaid too late, etc., doesn't belong here. I know, I know, my opinion on that is just one unimportant one, and you won't need to quote me the nice letter from comments above, I read it already. :D Good luck putting your energy into more climbing, less fuming.
PAROFES - Jun 27, 2011 7:19 am - Hasn't voted
Re: Your friendWell thank you for your comment, and fair vote.
You see, again, i respect everyone elses opinion, i really do.
But one of the guys above unfortunately showed me he just want to mess around.
He left a comment, never voted.
After my answer he came back and voted 6/10. Poor decision, just poor.
But it doesn't matter. Not here for the points, just to share.
Cheers and happy climbings.
Paulo
mvs - Jun 27, 2011 9:08 am - Voted 9/10
Re: Your friendSame to you. Believe me, I've had situations where I felt the same way, and your story is useful as a cautionary tale. Obviously you didn't let the whole debacle kill your love of mountains, and that is the important thing! :)
gabr1 - Jun 27, 2011 8:16 am - Voted 9/10
i'm a little confused......as usual Paulo, you make an article that is not at all "easy". That's the part of your writing i like most. But this time i'm really not sure what to think of it. I understand your point, but i also understand the criticism some SPers expressed.
I have been thinking about it, and i think it might have to do with the fact that for many people the mountains are the place where they seek perfection, and an article like yours inevitably reminds people that it is quite hard to run from all these "muddy" problems and find that perfection. This can be hard on people.
I'm not sure i would behave like you did, and maybe this influences my judgement, but then, i'm not here to judge your actions or your ex friend's.
I'd rather congratulate you on your dream come true.
And if i may, don't let these bitter things poison your mind, keep focused, from what i read you don't have many peaks to go before you reach your objective.
Take care,
Gabriele
PAROFES - Jun 27, 2011 8:27 am - Hasn't voted
Re: i'm a little confused...Wise words Gabriele.
Once again, thank you by reading this and for (like the other guy above) the fair comment and vote.
There is so much i didn't say here, if i did, people would change their minds but i think that's not the case.
That happened 15 months ago and i waited that long to write about it so i didn't mess things up even more with strong words.
Life goes on my friend!
Cheers
Paulo
montanachris - Jun 27, 2011 9:55 am - Voted 10/10
RealityGood story. I, personally, like the 'darker' side to this TR. The reality is that life has both good and bad points and this story portrays both. Also, many summits were accomplished which, I believe, ultimately overshadows the negative parts. The dissolution of a 'false' friendship pales in comparison to one's dream of reaching the top of a 'life list' peak. Cheers and keep on sharing your stories. And if I ever get back down to South America, we should go for a climb. Oh, and I like Bariloche; you're right it is touristy, but it has great parillas!
PAROFES - Jun 27, 2011 12:18 pm - Hasn't voted
Re: RealityWell we have some of the best bbcue here in Brazil too! hehehe
Cheers, thanks for read and vote.
Paulo
MoapaPk - Jun 27, 2011 11:39 am - Voted 10/10
Nice TR, but...... this may come back to haunt you.