Read about this in a 1987 Summit magazine the 23,000 mountain they climbed but lost the issue. Nice to have something about this remote part of the world. Probably harder than other tall mountains because it is a do it yourself mountain and not a "Sherpa Mountain".
Hello Desainme, thank you for the vote. Seems like a lot of the controversy about the height of Ulugh Muztagh main peak has been solved. The Russian led Finnish expedition to Ulugh Muztag West peak, measured it with good equipment as being 6984 meter. As about everybody really in to this discussion can agree upon, the main summit is in the order of 100-150 meter higher than the west peak. So probably it is around 7100 meter. No 7500 or even 7700 meter peak is there, but there is a 7000er. The estimated position of it as present makes it likely that indeed the Chinese party of 1985 climbed it, but had a considerable error in their measurement. So that is an outcome that keeps everybody happy!
It is indeed a "do it yourself peak". The ban on portering in China is lifted and even some people now are trained in it, (The Kyrghyz of the Western Kunlun made the development before and now are portering as far as camp II on peaks like Muztagata and Kongur), but you won't find anybody willing to risk his life in such remote area's like Mudztagh Feng. Let's keep it that way! More gruelling than climbing the peaks themselves is just the getting there: The Finnish took 17 days for 325 kilometer!
Hi Tim, thanks for the vote. I hope to get my Finnish friends to make more additions to the page soon and also have them put up a seperate page about Ulugh Muztagh West peak, of which they performed the first ascent just last month.
You are right, I am one of those few lucky guys that managed to succeed to live a life for and with the mountains. It does not get me rich, but who cares about that if you can do what you really like?
Thank you very much, Dean. I hope that in several weeks you can revisit the page: New information about the first ascent in 1985, climbing leader's Hu Fung Ling's miraculous survival of a 1000 meter fall and his losing his feet due to frostbite will come up. At the moment I am working on Hu's giant photo collection and many a historic picture will come up soon too.
Thank you a lot for the vote! Yes, the myth is hard in dying out. However information that has come up in the last few years and an elaborate cooperation between several people interested in the matter have resulted in 100% solid prove that the height of the mountain is within 30 meters of the given value of 6973, the West peak being just a few meters lower. Last year when we visited the South, the last unknown side of the massiv we concluded that there is no peak exceeding 6800 meter there. Unfortunately I am so busy now, with summer season coming, that I not yet found the time to update the page.
Hi viewfinder: Have a look at it again, the old chapter about the elevation controversy has been deleted and a new one written with updated information.
Have you climbed (or attempted to climb) the mountain?
Do you have a significant amount of information about the mountain that other people would find useful?
Do you have any photos you can upload?
The answers to these questions are:
NO. Not closer than 96km.
NO. Guess work, mixed with a lot of strange bla bla bla is all you find here and loads of the "info" is far from accurate or true. I will point some of it out below.
NO. The maintainer has no photos of his own. The photos of the mountain on the page are all scanned from a book or show places 100's of km away.
2). The maintainer's "logic" and arguments about the peaks height and which peak the Sino-American expedition climbed has gone completely over the top. There's no doubt whatsoever, the highest peak was climbed! The expedition was led by no less than Nick Clinch (who also lead the first successful Gasherbrum I and Masherbrum expedition etc.). Clinch is one of the most respected American mountaineers of all time, so I consider it offensive Heersink insinuating "the first team climbed the wrong peak" saying "Still it is not known with certaintly (sic) how high the loftiest summit of the massiv (sic) actually is."
Nick Clinch answers on Heersink's theory:
"... I could go into great detail about why Mr. Heersink's
comments are completely false. However, there is one error which
covers it all. I did not open your picture attachment until just
before meeting Dr. Liang and I regret that I did not do so much
earlier. His fabrications and analysis are illustrated by this
satellite photograph. The key is the line in the lower right
corner which purports to show the direction of true north. In
fact, it is East-South-East or about 110 degrees from north. His
whole story is based upon this being north! He turns everything
lopsided. Even if he couldn't determine north by reading the
satellite photograph, as an expedition leader he should have
consulted the book Arka Tagh by William Holgate. There he would
have found on page 28 a satellite picture used as a map on which
true north is clearly labeled. Mr. Holgate reached the mountain
directly from Cherchen and his excellent book is accurately
detailed. Mr. Heersink never mentions it.
Mr. Heersink can falsely accuse us of being frauds and
liars, but he cannot change the direction of north. However, I am sure that he will concoct a new story. "
3). Heersink has flipped photos, which has been pointed out by another SP'er, in order to "prove his theory".
6). The "Getting There" section stops where the mountains start. It's completely useless. Any person can reach Tula, even with a tourist map. The rest of the route is guess work, plotted from an ONC.
7). The mountain is called different things on different places on the page. Mudztagh Feng, Ulugh Muztagh etc.
8). Seldom there has been a mountain about which height such a heated discussion has arisen, and it still not has died down
Yes, it has.
No one doubt Nick Clinch, The Finns, Ershov and all the other people who have been there. The fact that SRTM nowadays exist has also convinced the doubtful about the fact that the peak is correctly measured.
8). The first to visit the area was British explorer/spy/mountaineer Jackson in the dying days of the 19th century.
Interesting.
Who is this Jackson?
Some more references would be excellent. A given name perhaps, so we could start looking for this mysterious man, who's not mentioned anywhere in any book about the great explorers. Another well known explorer claims to have been the first in the area.
9). It took half a century for the next were to come. This time it were Soviet explorers. It is incredible that with the greatest battles ever raging in their country they could in 1943 still find the reserve to go on ventures like this - In the same year also an ascent of Peak Pobeda was made -. They got fairly near the isolated massiv and from them we inherited the first measurement of its height: 7754 meter, now the object of great controversy.
Not true.
There was another explorer who went to the peak as early as 1896. Sven Hedin. And again, there's no "great controversy" anymore.
Finally, the peak was measured to over 7700 m long before the Russians were there. It's not an inheritence from them. Your statement and claimed chronology of events is not correct.
10.) possibly climbing its Southwest ridge. We came withing viewing distance of the ridge,
The submitter did not.
I've talked to the other members of that expedition and Heersink was a long way off. I can give details and coordinates if necessary. 96 km away, if I remember correct. This is confirmed by what Ershov says on his site.
I could go on, but this is enough for now. The page is really bad. Period.
Make massive updates, or better, delete the whole page.
It's a black mark in your collection of mountain pages.
Most of the other are good. Two are of sub-standard quality ("Beifeng Peak" and Skyang Kangri), but not that bad.
Page has been largely rewritten recently. So I hope you will revisit it and reconsider your vote: Might not be the greatest page on SP, but it certainly better than 0 stars. Sorry that it took a while to get this work done: My time for major edits is limited.
Why so harsh attm? If only those who have climbed or attempted to climb a certain Himalaya peak could be an author of the page, there would NOT be many Himalaya-pages on SP. Have it occured to you how many Himalay-peaks which have NONE summitlogs. Quite a few...
Thanks for the vote, David. Page has seen a recent overhaul, but even before it was certainly better than "0", as two persons voted. But, anyway, its allowed to differ on SP.
desainme - Nov 5, 2003 12:21 pm - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentRead about this in a 1987 Summit magazine the 23,000 mountain they climbed but lost the issue. Nice to have something about this remote part of the world. Probably harder than other tall mountains because it is a do it yourself mountain and not a "Sherpa Mountain".
Johan Heersink - Nov 20, 2003 3:14 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHello Desainme, thank you for the vote. Seems like a lot of the controversy about the height of Ulugh Muztagh main peak has been solved. The Russian led Finnish expedition to Ulugh Muztag West peak, measured it with good equipment as being 6984 meter. As about everybody really in to this discussion can agree upon, the main summit is in the order of 100-150 meter higher than the west peak. So probably it is around 7100 meter. No 7500 or even 7700 meter peak is there, but there is a 7000er. The estimated position of it as present makes it likely that indeed the Chinese party of 1985 climbed it, but had a considerable error in their measurement. So that is an outcome that keeps everybody happy!
It is indeed a "do it yourself peak". The ban on portering in China is lifted and even some people now are trained in it, (The Kyrghyz of the Western Kunlun made the development before and now are portering as far as camp II on peaks like Muztagata and Kongur), but you won't find anybody willing to risk his life in such remote area's like Mudztagh Feng. Let's keep it that way! More gruelling than climbing the peaks themselves is just the getting there: The Finnish took 17 days for 325 kilometer!
tlogan - Nov 20, 2003 1:12 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentI enjoyed this page a lot... looks like you've found yourself a real slice of heaven over there in China... sounds great!
Johan Heersink - Nov 20, 2003 2:57 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHi Tim, thanks for the vote. I hope to get my Finnish friends to make more additions to the page soon and also have them put up a seperate page about Ulugh Muztagh West peak, of which they performed the first ascent just last month.
You are right, I am one of those few lucky guys that managed to succeed to live a life for and with the mountains. It does not get me rich, but who cares about that if you can do what you really like?
Johan Heersink - Nov 26, 2003 6:54 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThanks very much for the vote on Ulugh Muztagh page!
Hu Fung Ling - Jan 3, 2004 1:32 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentGood!
Johan Heersink - Jan 4, 2004 3:34 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThanks a lot Hu Fung Ling, that we soon may see you back in active mountaineering\!
Dean - Feb 2, 2004 12:20 am - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentGreat page.
Johan Heersink - Feb 2, 2004 12:57 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThank you very much, Dean. I hope that in several weeks you can revisit the page: New information about the first ascent in 1985, climbing leader's Hu Fung Ling's miraculous survival of a 1000 meter fall and his losing his feet due to frostbite will come up. At the moment I am working on Hu's giant photo collection and many a historic picture will come up soon too.
Johan Heersink - Feb 21, 2004 1:18 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThank you for the vote Kenzo!
Johan Heersink - Jun 12, 2005 4:02 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThank you a lot for the vote! Yes, the myth is hard in dying out. However information that has come up in the last few years and an elaborate cooperation between several people interested in the matter have resulted in 100% solid prove that the height of the mountain is within 30 meters of the given value of 6973, the West peak being just a few meters lower. Last year when we visited the South, the last unknown side of the massiv we concluded that there is no peak exceeding 6800 meter there. Unfortunately I am so busy now, with summer season coming, that I not yet found the time to update the page.
viewfinder - Nov 14, 2005 11:11 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentPlease update the "elevation controversy" section of your page. This section states "definitely not 6973m" and is confusing.
Johan Heersink - Nov 15, 2005 2:56 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHi viewfinder: Have a look at it again, the old chapter about the elevation controversy has been deleted and a new one written with updated information.
Corax - Nov 15, 2005 7:57 pm - Hasn't voted
Untitled Comment1). Summitpost posting guidelines:
The answers to these questions are:
NO. Not closer than 96km.
NO. Guess work, mixed with a lot of strange bla bla bla is all you find here and loads of the "info" is far from accurate or true. I will point some of it out below.
NO. The maintainer has no photos of his own. The photos of the mountain on the page are all scanned from a book or show places 100's of km away.
2). The maintainer's "logic" and arguments about the peaks height and which peak the Sino-American expedition climbed has gone completely over the top. There's no doubt whatsoever, the highest peak was climbed! The expedition was led by no less than Nick Clinch (who also lead the first successful Gasherbrum I and Masherbrum expedition etc.). Clinch is one of the most respected American mountaineers of all time, so I consider it offensive Heersink insinuating "the first team climbed the wrong peak" saying "Still it is not known with certaintly (sic) how high the loftiest summit of the massiv (sic) actually is."
Nick Clinch answers on Heersink's theory:
"... I could go into great detail about why Mr. Heersink's
comments are completely false. However, there is one error which
covers it all. I did not open your picture attachment until just
before meeting Dr. Liang and I regret that I did not do so much
earlier. His fabrications and analysis are illustrated by this
satellite photograph. The key is the line in the lower right
corner which purports to show the direction of true north. In
fact, it is East-South-East or about 110 degrees from north. His
whole story is based upon this being north! He turns everything
lopsided. Even if he couldn't determine north by reading the
satellite photograph, as an expedition leader he should have
consulted the book Arka Tagh by William Holgate. There he would
have found on page 28 a satellite picture used as a map on which
true north is clearly labeled. Mr. Holgate reached the mountain
directly from Cherchen and his excellent book is accurately
detailed. Mr. Heersink never mentions it.
Mr. Heersink can falsely accuse us of being frauds and
liars, but he cannot change the direction of north. However, I am sure that he will concoct a new story. "
3). Heersink has flipped photos, which has been pointed out by another SP'er, in order to "prove his theory".
Look at this photo and compare it with this flipped photo.
Simple and cunning ways to deceive people. A very bad behaviour if you ask me.
The captions on both photos have huge errors.
4). A satellite image where the maintainer mix up Muztagh Ata and Ulugh Muztagh. They are 1100km apart. Quite a mistake I must say.
5). Commercial add here. Outdated and should be deleted.
6). The "Getting There" section stops where the mountains start. It's completely useless. Any person can reach Tula, even with a tourist map. The rest of the route is guess work, plotted from an ONC.
7). The mountain is called different things on different places on the page. Mudztagh Feng, Ulugh Muztagh etc.
8). Seldom there has been a mountain about which height such a heated discussion has arisen, and it still not has died down
Yes, it has.
No one doubt Nick Clinch, The Finns, Ershov and all the other people who have been there. The fact that SRTM nowadays exist has also convinced the doubtful about the fact that the peak is correctly measured.
8). The first to visit the area was British explorer/spy/mountaineer Jackson in the dying days of the 19th century.
Interesting.
Who is this Jackson?
Some more references would be excellent. A given name perhaps, so we could start looking for this mysterious man, who's not mentioned anywhere in any book about the great explorers. Another well known explorer claims to have been the first in the area.
9). It took half a century for the next were to come. This time it were Soviet explorers. It is incredible that with the greatest battles ever raging in their country they could in 1943 still find the reserve to go on ventures like this - In the same year also an ascent of Peak Pobeda was made -. They got fairly near the isolated massiv and from them we inherited the first measurement of its height: 7754 meter, now the object of great controversy.
Not true.
There was another explorer who went to the peak as early as 1896. Sven Hedin. And again, there's no "great controversy" anymore.
Finally, the peak was measured to over 7700 m long before the Russians were there. It's not an inheritence from them. Your statement and claimed chronology of events is not correct.
10.) possibly climbing its Southwest ridge. We came withing viewing distance of the ridge,
The submitter did not.
I've talked to the other members of that expedition and Heersink was a long way off. I can give details and coordinates if necessary. 96 km away, if I remember correct. This is confirmed by what Ershov says on his site.
I could go on, but this is enough for now. The page is really bad. Period.
Make massive updates, or better, delete the whole page.
It's a black mark in your collection of mountain pages.
Most of the other are good. Two are of sub-standard quality ("Beifeng Peak" and Skyang Kangri), but not that bad.
Johan Heersink - Dec 23, 2005 4:13 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentPage has been largely rewritten recently. So I hope you will revisit it and reconsider your vote: Might not be the greatest page on SP, but it certainly better than 0 stars. Sorry that it took a while to get this work done: My time for major edits is limited.
Johan Heersink - Dec 28, 2005 8:33 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentHello Natreb, since your vote a lot of editing has been done on the Ulugh Muztagh page, hope you can have a look again.
LS - Mar 31, 2006 8:08 pm - Voted 10/10
Re: Untitled CommentWhy so harsh attm? If only those who have climbed or attempted to climb a certain Himalaya peak could be an author of the page, there would NOT be many Himalaya-pages on SP. Have it occured to you how many Himalay-peaks which have NONE summitlogs. Quite a few...
McCannster - Jan 23, 2006 11:39 pm - Voted 10/10
Untitled CommentI don't know why everybody is freaking out about-this is a sweet page for a sweet mountain! Good Job Johan!
~DAVID
Johan Heersink - Jan 24, 2006 3:55 am - Hasn't voted
Untitled CommentThanks for the vote, David. Page has seen a recent overhaul, but even before it was certainly better than "0", as two persons voted. But, anyway, its allowed to differ on SP.