tyler4588 wrote:Do you use a trainer at all? What about cranking the trainer up to a nasty hill climb and just sitting on it for an hour to get that ideal venue for high BPM exercise?

No, despite its disadvantages, LA has incredible road cycling! I haven't used a trainer, so I can't comment beyond saying I'm suspicious that I wouldn't personally have the motivation to ride indoors. I ride my bike because it's fun and because group rides can get quite competitive.

I think the answer you're looking for is that you should bike a bit and run a bit and adjust the ratio according to what you like best. Just don't ignore running too much (or at least substitute for it with long hikes instead of more cycling) so that your body is ready to take abuse on trails.

hamik wrote:

tyler4588 wrote:Do you use a trainer at all? What about cranking the trainer up to a nasty hill climb and just sitting on it for an hour to get that ideal venue for high BPM exercise?

No, despite its disadvantages, LA has incredible road cycling! I haven't used a trainer, so I can't comment beyond saying I'm suspicious that I wouldn't personally have the motivation to ride indoors. I ride my bike because it's fun and because group rides can get quite competitive.

I think the answer you're looking for is that you should bike a bit and run a bit and adjust the ratio according to what you like best. Just don't ignore running too much (or at least substitute for it with long hikes instead of more cycling) so that your body is ready to take abuse on trails.

Yeah, that sounds good. I ask about the trainer because sometimes I don't have the time to go out on a worthwhile ride, but the trainer is always there. Anyway, sounds like I've got a workable situation here. Thanks all!

I have a trainer - the noise it makes is a bit annoying, but it's awesome to crank up the resistance and do some intervals while watching TV. I have been doing it past few weeks while (shhhh, guilty pleasure) watching and karaoke-ing to Glee. ha

I fell off the running wagon and haven't gotten back on. My only exercise is hiking/climbing in the summer and snowboarding/ice climbing in the winter. So when mud season came, I felt that I was getting out of shape, also I didn't want to loose my quad power that that I got from all those moguls this winter. Doing a trainer 1-2x a week in addition to weekend climbing or long cycling keeps me in pretty good shape I think. I do find hiking so unbearably boring though, unless it's some killer 25 miles and above marathon dayhikes.

tyler4588 wrote:Lastly, I've noticed that since I've taken up running, my knees have been feeling more strained, especially on hikes downhill. It is my understanding that running impacts the knees a lot more than bicycling, and so I'm thinking that bicycling might help mitigate the strain on my knees. Of course, that also might mean that my knees will not have as much of the muscle they need to take impact like that. I don't know enough about these things to understand this problem, and so that's part of why I was asking.

If knee pain is the issue, switching to cycling may not be the answer you're looking for. Unless you have good form, cycling can destroy your knees.

If your knees are feeling shaky and weak from running, there are a couple of things you can do:
1) Rest. If you're hiking 2 days a week and running 5, when are you resting? You need one day a week of doing nothing but walking the dog and drinking beer.
2) Hydrate.
3) Stretch... no, really... warm up and stretch your hammies, hips, and quads... 30 minutes a day.
4) Strength train your quads twice a week. Get on a leg extension machine, add a moderate amount of weight, and do three sets of ten reps of just the final ten degrees of the leg extension. That is to say, extend your leg all the way, let it bend ten degrees, and then straighten it back again. Do the reps slowly and with control. Focusing on that portion of the lift will more effectively stengthen your knees than doing a full leg extension, and that was the biggest contributing factor to me kicking my knee pain.

listen, if you are going to hike twice a week (given that they are spread out with a few days in between) and you push hard on them, that's plenty of specific training for hiking. you could mix up with cycling or running or both in between.

like Hamik said, you generally aren't going to get as great of a workout cycling (at least until you are training very hard for it) as running because the rate of perceived exertion is higher b/c the workload is spread out over more muscles. yes you could cycle for 3 hours or run for 1, but now those are different workouts.

any one of the activities if done well enough will give you the "heart fitness" you will need for any other activity, but it may not give you the "muscle fitness".

honestly, you can have very high fitness with 2-3 workouts a week...but the level of intensity increases. if you do one day with a shorter hike but really push hard with intervals trying to reach high % of your max heartrate and another day of cycling / running with intensity, you'll be good to go for your other hike.

neither cycling nor running will give you the "muscle fitness" for hiking. Hiking will.

if you don't have time to hike, the best thing to do is go buy a cheap treadmill, get some cinder blocks and lift it up to make it like 20-40% grade. work on that for 30-60 mins twice a week and you're golden

battledome wrote:

tyler4588 wrote: Unless you have good form, cycling can destroy your knees.

and may I add, a proper fit to your bike, as well.

battledome wrote:

tyler4588 wrote:Lastly, I've noticed that since I've taken up running, my knees have been feeling more strained, especially on hikes downhill. It is my understanding that running impacts the knees a lot more than bicycling, and so I'm thinking that bicycling might help mitigate the strain on my knees. Of course, that also might mean that my knees will not have as much of the muscle they need to take impact like that. I don't know enough about these things to understand this problem, and so that's part of why I was asking.

If knee pain is the issue, switching to cycling may not be the answer you're looking for. Unless you have good form, cycling can destroy your knees.

If your knees are feeling shaky and weak from running, there are a couple of things you can do:
1) Rest. If you're hiking 2 days a week and running 5, when are you resting? You need one day a week of doing nothing but walking the dog and drinking beer.
2) Hydrate.
3) Stretch... no, really... warm up and stretch your hammies, hips, and quads... 30 minutes a day.
4) Strength train your quads twice a week. Get on a leg extension machine, add a moderate amount of weight, and do three sets of ten reps of just the final ten degrees of the leg extension. That is to say, extend your leg all the way, let it bend ten degrees, and then straighten it back again. Do the reps slowly and with control. Focusing on that portion of the lift will more effectively stengthen your knees than doing a full leg extension, and that was the biggest contributing factor to me kicking my knee pain.

Another great cardio workout you can do if your knees are giving you problems from running (speaking as a 30+yr runner whose had his share of knee problems) is swim. It can be mind numbing doing laps, and requires some technique to do well, but puts very little stress on your knees or feet.

JHH60 wrote:Another great cardio workout you can do if your knees are giving you problems from running (speaking as a 30+yr runner whose had his share of knee problems) is swim. It can be mind numbing doing laps, and requires some technique to do well, but puts very little stress on your knees or feet.

Yeah, pool access is a tough one for me, though.

I think what troubles most folks' knees is going downhill, expecially over a long period without rest. Hiking downhill creates an 'eccentric' muscle contraction, where the thigh muscle(s) has to apply force as it lengthens (versus a concentric contraction, where muscle force causes it to shorten). This eccentric thing is what makes your thighs hurt when you try to sit down the day after a long climb.

The only good way I know to train for that is to walk downhill. However, it occurred to me that riding downhill on a fixie might do it, if you don't kill yourself in the process

I've had good success with a combination of riding and running. You do need to work your quads though. Lunges are good. Also if you have access to a stationary bike you can work the quads by holding your upper body stable, no bouncing, and just turn the pedals with your quads. You'll fee the burn for sure.

I agree that if you have knee/patella issues you should be careful with cycling. The size of your bike and setup, and your body position are critical!

Also, if you go with a road bike and click in pedals, take a look at Speedplay pedals, they allow more movement of the foot on the pedal and are therefore more gentle on the knee.

On this day my all-up weight was ~ 50#. Did about 22 miles and 8000' climbing yesterday with same rig.

I hit the roads for aerobic work and the trails with the loaded MTB for full deal.

Mountain bikers who haul their camping/hiking gear (currently called 'bikepackers') routinely carry 50-75# and do some climbing....lots in some instances.

Mike Curiak did the full 1,100 mile Ididarod bike race with 145# of gear. That was a solo, unsupported effort BTW. Considerable amount of effort involved to get that rig up/over some of the obstacles out there.

Ran a lot through college and enjoyed it. Works some parts well, others not. MTB'ng will require a lot of upper body strength, weight bearing climbing and descending (try walking/carrying a 50# MTB rig off Baldy Summit.) and a big aerobic engine to power up the straight climbs.

you crazy!

welle wrote:I have a trainer - the noise it makes is a bit annoying, but it's awesome to crank up the resistance and do some intervals while watching TV.
I have been doing it past few weeks while (shhhh, guilty pleasure) watching and karaoke-ing to Glee. ha

JHH60 wrote:Another great cardio workout [...] is swim. It can be mind numbing doing laps, [...]

Not to mention being much harder to watch and sing along with Glee whilst working out...