And those that are in elite fit condition (endurance athletes Cyclists and LD Runners etc) from intense long term HR, VO2 and Lactate Thresh training, acclimate quicker and in turn climb at a far faster pace than any sedate individual.

I have personally seen ultra marathon runner suffer terribly at altitude compared to less super-human individuals. Yes, I totally agree that fitter people will climb faster and perform better once acclimitised but from what I have read and witnessed, will not necessarily acclimitise quicker.

Well, I live and work at and above 8K -11K and see/work/guide with all types of folks on a daily basis.

From my daily experience at altitude, I have found that elite athletes and those in good cardio fit condition, tend to acclimate & perform far better than the normal population as a general rule.

Interesting Chief, perhaps due to those altitudes you work being at the lower end of the altitude spectrum.

radson wrote:Interesting Chief, perhaps due to those altitudes you work being at the lower end of the altitude spectrum.

Maybe.

But, the highest point of course being 14,494' in the lower 48 and also the altitude that the OP is most likely relating to as he lives and plays in the same area... the Sierra of California.

BTW, I live at, climb and work daily, higher than any point in your residing country... Australia.

Just contemplating...

The effects of altitude are varied. When talking about ability to acclimatize, are we referring to 1) not getting dizzy 2) not getting a headache / nausea 3) not getting AMS 4) not fatiguing...and are we referring to these things happening upon arrival / dayhike or after a few days at altitude?

Better cardiovascular endurance will certainly reduce fatigue. Dizziness? That seems to be related to increased ventilation and CO2 release, not sure how that is affect by conditioning. On a dayhike, not sure how that affects 2 & 3. After multiple days at altitude? I could see that.

Bodyweight is a definite factor. Relative to your frame / lung capacity, the more weight you carry means the more oxygen you need to consume. Obviously, if you need more oxygen than someone else with similar frame, you're more likely to suffer bad effects from low oxygen pressure while hiking.

Actually, this could also be a problem at rest if you have a high metabolism, which could be partly genetic but also related to how much muscle mass you have. If you have more, even at rest you'll need to consume more oxygen, and therefore have to work harder at acclimatizing than others when at altitude.

So I guess there are 2 benefits to breathing deeply at altitude. 1) it increases pressure differential to help transfer oxygen into blood and 2) it calms you and reduces heartrate and amount of oxygen you need...

BTW, I live at, climb and work daily, higher than any point in your residing country... Australia.

umm..congratulations.

radson wrote:

BTW, I live at, climb and work daily, higher than any point in your residing country... Australia.

umm..congratulations.

Forget the ultra-marathoner.

Appears you are one that has issues at altitude as well.

From your Big "E" log...

"Had a great time but got HACE at Base camp. Very weird. Recovered ok but got HAPE at Camp 2 about 5 weeks later."

Once a year guided excursions to altitude can kill folks like yourself ya know....Genetics?

Be thankful that the HAPE didn't kill ya.

I had a client die of HAPE last year at 10822'. After the autopsy, it was officially documented that he was basically a dead man walking and has set the record for onset to death due to HAPE. 3.2 hours. Nothing could have been done to save him. It's onset was so quick that the doctor said at hour 2, prior to any obvious visual symptoms, the fluid build up in his lungs had already reached the point of no return.

Genetics had lots to do with it. Very Sad day for all involved to say the least.

1. Obviously no one should ever show up to the mtns out of shape...
2. I think the bottom line here is that some people just genetically don't adapt to altitude well. I've had buddies in just as good shape as me have symptoms of AMS at 10k' even after spending 4 days at 6-7k', while myself or the rest of the group had no symptoms. In regard to ultra marathon runners, if you've never logged some time at high altitudes you don't know how your body will respond. Wouldn't one think--unless you just can't handle high altitude genetically-- the more trips you take to 10k and even higher the better your nervous system gets at adapting to altitude for the next time you return? Plus how are you going to find out how well your body acclimatizes so you can plan your trip schedule accordingly? Extreme Alpinism has some really good insight on this subject. How some acclimate slower/faster regardless of fitness. In regards to the OP, just train your freaking A off-specifically- till you puke> When your at altitude just take it slow, hydrate, and rest well. Thats almost all you can do if you can't spend more time at altitude. Unless you fork out several grand and get an altitude chamber

Chief, without factoring in your fitness level, when you began guiding at altitude could you tell a difference in how much your body handled the altitude with each successive trip?

psycobill wrote:Chief, without factoring in your fitness level, when you began guiding at altitude could you tell a difference in how much your body handled the altitude with each successive trip?

Not really as I have been at it for a while now (8 years) and I guess you can say that my body has grown accustomed to it.

I go and actively work from 7800 to just over 11k in the winter on pretty much a daily basis now.

In the summer, I go from 7800 to at or above 12K to 14K at least 3-4 times a week.


I do on the other hand feel the increased pressure and higher 02 content level effects when I go to down south to sea-level once every 3-4 months. I get dizzy and lethargic as hell.

Dang you Chief. All this altitude talk is making me depressed... Since my highest local hill/mtn where i'm at is 1600'. At least its practically my back yard. You suck [as in i'm envious] Go play and guide in your freakin mountains. I'll go run my tree coverd hills

Hey... someone's got to do it.

FortMental wrote:Tyler....what kind of altitude are you talking about?

Between 10,000-14,000. I come from sea level and don't usually have much time to acclimate, since trips usually only last 2 or 3 nights.

The Chief wrote:

radson wrote:

BTW, I live at, climb and work daily, higher than any point in your residing country... Australia.

umm..congratulations.

Forget the ultra-marathoner.

Appears you are one that has issues at altitude as well.

From your Big "E" log...

"Had a great time but got HACE at Base camp. Very weird. Recovered ok but got HAPE at Camp 2 about 5 weeks later."

Once a year guided excursions to altitude can kill folks like yourself ya know....Genetics?

Be thankful that the HAPE didn't kill ya.

I had a client die of HAPE last year at 10822'. After the autopsy, it was officially documented that he was basically a dead man walking and has set the record for onset to death due to HAPE. 3.2 hours. Nothing could have been done to save him. It's onset was so quick that the doctor said at hour 2, prior to any obvious visual symptoms, the fluid build up in his lungs had already reached the point of no return.

Genetics had lots to do with it. Very Sad day for all involved to say the least.

Yes Genetics plays a big part. I think recent research is showing correlations with ability to acclimatise and the BCA1 and BCA2 genes from memory but stiill inconclusive. It's a multi-faceted issue, barely 6 months prior I had been sleeping multiple nights at 23,000' and 6 weeks over 18,000' with no problems. Fitness, genes, age, gender, all seem to play a role but with no direct correlations.

tyler4588 wrote:I'm curious about what everybody's thoughts are on VO2 Max training, and how it relates to climbing at altitude. I seem to have a hard time acclimating sometimes, and I wonder if improving my VO2 Max would help with that at all. If so, would anybody recommend a specific workout routine or something?

By now you are probably confused by the buffoonery of the Chief. Suffice to say he's full of shit. Ze and FortMental are far more accurate in their posts on this topic and have given good advice.

The Chief wrote:I do on the other hand feel the increased pressure and higher 02 content level effects when I go to down south to sea-level once every 3-4 months. I get dizzy and lethargic as hell.

Sure, but go for a run. You can go all day and never get out of breath.